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Introduction

Should we shrink the economy to save the planet? In this episode, Phil is joined by Hannah from the What in the World podcast to talk about an idea called degrowth.

This week's question

In 2015, world leaders agreed to limit global temperature rises. How much did they agree to limit them to?

a) 1.5C
b) 2.5C
c) 3.5C

Listen to the programme to hear the answer.

Vocabulary

degrowth
the economic idea that we need to use and make less stuff

element of
part of

beneficial
useful or good

fast fashion
clothes made cheaply and quickly so that people can buy them more often

underestimate
not understand the importance or size of something

feasibility
the likelihood that something can be achieved

TRANSCRIPT

Note: This is not a word-for-word transcript.

Phil 
Hello, and welcome to 6 Minute English from BBC Learning English. I’m Phil and today we have Hannah joining us again from BBC podcast, What in the World. Welcome Hannah.

Hannah 
Hey Phil, it is so great to be back here. So, I’m wondering, do you do things that you think are good for the planet? 

Phil 
I try, but I don't think I do enough. So, maybe I cycle more than I drive, and I try to recycle things, but I should be doing a lot more. 

Hannah 
But some people think that to deal with climate change, we can’t just rely on individuals. Phil, it’s not up to you and me. We need to actually change the way our economy works. And this is an idea called degrowth, and we’ve been investigating it at What in the World, and we’re going to learn more about it today. 

Phil 
But first, our quiz question. World leaders promised in 2015 to limit global temperature rises. But what was the limit they agreed to? Was it:

a. 1.5C?
b. 2.5C?
c. 3.5C?

Hannah
I think I know this one, Phil. I think it's 1.5C.

Phil
OK. We'll find out the answer later in the programme. So, Hannah, you’ve been researching degrowth – what does that mean? 

Hannah
Well Phil, traditionally governments have always wanted to grow the economy. More money, more jobs and more stuff. But degrowth is a different way of thinking about things. Some people say that to tackle the climate crisis we need to stop our economies from growing. We need to stop using and making more and focus on using fewer of the Earth’s natural resources. The people who support the idea of degrowth, are often called degrowthers. 

Phil 
Right, OK, so degrowthers argue we should make and use less stuff.  

Hannah 
Yes, mostly. It's a little bit more complex than that. And I spoke to BBC journalist Alvaro Alvarez, who told me more about the idea. 

Alvaro Alvarez
So, degrowth is not saying that we need to reduce everything. It’s saying that we need to decrease some elements of our production that are not beneficial. An example of those elements would be fast fashion, private jets, the beef and meat industry. So it’s not about decreasing everything. 

Phil 
Alvaro says that degrowthers believe we should reduce some elements of production. An element of something is a part of something. 

Hannah 
And according to Alvaro, these elements of production are not believed to be beneficial. If something is beneficial it is useful or good. 

Phil 
One example of a kind of production that degrowthers disagree with is fast fashion. Fast fashion refers to clothes that are made very cheaply and quickly, so that customers can afford to buy new outfits more often. 

Hannah 
Exactly. And before we go any further, many economists do not think that degrowth is a good idea. Some of them argue that it would create more poverty. And some economists believe degrowth would actually make it harder to solve the climate crisis.  

Phil 
For example, Professor Sam Fankhauser, an economist at Cambridge University in the UK, spoke to you on What in the World. And he argues that degrowth could limit innovation.   

Sam Fankhauser
I think degrowth underestimates the power of innovation. Degrowth underestimates the need for investment that we need in new technology and in new solutions. And degrowth underestimates the social, sort of, feasibility of what they propose. 

Hannah 
So, Professor Fankhauser thinks that degrowth underestimates many things, such as innovation. If you underestimate something, you don’t understand the true importance or size of it. 

Phil 
Another factor that Professor Fankhauser says is underestimated by degrowthers is the feasibility of social change. Feasibility means the possibility that something can be achieved. It comes from the adjective feasible. For example, I could say that I think it’s feasible for us to finish this podcast in six minutes. I think that we can do it! 

Hannah 
Well, Phil, we're going to have to get a move on. I think it's time to hear the answer to your quiz question.

Phil 
I asked how much world leaders agreed to limit global temperature rises to. The answer is 1.5C, which scientists believe is needed to stop the worst impacts of climate change. 

Hannah 
I got it right! OK, so let’s recap some of the vocabulary we’ve learned, starting with degrowth, which is the economic idea that we should use and make less stuff. 

Phil  
An element of something means a part of something. 

Hannah 
Beneficial means useful or good.  

Phil 
Fast fashion refers to clothes that are made cheaply and quickly, so that people can buy them more often. 

Hannah 
And, if you underestimate something, you don’t understand the true importance or size of it. 

Phil 
The feasibility of something is the likelihood that it can be achieved. We can also describe something as feasible or unfeasible. We can do it, or we can’t do it. 

Hannah  
Phil, once again our 6 minutes are up, but there’s just a little bit more time for me to tell you more about my podcast, What in the World. We have a new episode every single weekday and we talk about the news, trending topics. In fact, it’s a great place to come and learn some new vocabulary about things that are happening in the world. 

Phil 
Yes, if you’ve found this episode interesting, try watching What in the World on YouTube with subtitles to practise your English. There’s a link in the notes for this episode. And don’t forget to try the quiz and worksheet at bbclearningenglish.com. 

Hannah 
Phil, thank you so much for having me again on 6 Minute English. Bye for now. 

Phil 
Bye! 

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Now try this...

Listen to the full episode of What in the World about degrowth, or try watching What in the World on YouTube.