Flintoff scored a magnificent 142 Photos from day four

This is the place to air your views on the second Test between England and South Africa.

England are dismissed for 417 to lose by an innings and 92 runs to South Africa in the second Test at Lord's.

Andrew Flintoff's brilliant 142 delayed defeat until well after tea, but England will be left to rue their poor performance during the first three days of the Test.

South Africa's ten-wicket hero Makhaya Ntini shared the man-of-the match award with his captain Graeme Smith, who scored 259 in South Africa's first-innings score of 682-6.

Have Your Say instantly on the TMS messageboard

Who is to blame for England's heavy defeat?

English Test cricket is pathetic! Need I say more.
Matt, Kansas, USA

English bowlers never bowl to get wickets Amjad Saleem, Leeds UK

Why is it every time we perform badly the same old comments about overseas players come up. If I remember correctly the last time we had a team to compete with the best in the world each team had at least two overseas players. Good overseas players promote competition and competition improves players.
Nigel Lindsey, Moscow

Thought Gough had a few too many pork pies. Nasser's early "missed" catch didn't help Vaughan in his first test.
kerry, London

English bowlers never bowl to get wickets, rather they hope for the batsman to make the mistakes which good batsmen seldom do. It is no surprise that we are always trying to avoid the follow on.
Amjad Saleem, Leeds UK

As a Brit I can only despair at the state of our cricket team. I'm not sure if its poor leadership, lack of confidence or just a general lack of talent coming through. Something has to be done perhaps Nasser standing down will help and some fresh ideas in the captaincy will breath a bit of life into us. I don't expect immediate results but as an Englishman in the land down under I can only hope things get better!
Doug Barker, Melbourne, Australia

I think England need a real strike bowler Omar Qasim, Karachi, Pakistan

England bowlers became very predictable, No variation at all. Look at Smith, he was able to clean pick even an inswinging ball every time consistently. C'mon guys (England Bowlers), you can do much better.
PG, India

With Jacques Kallis coming back for third Test, it seems that worst is yet to come for England. This defeat has shattered the morale of English team. If they don't get their act together for the next Test, they will also be tattered.
Tariq A, USA

Bring back Thorpe then England can make a repeat of 1998 Test series. Meanwhile Graeme Smith is going to be one of legends in Test Cricket as successful captain and maybe his batting too.
Narain Nadarajah, Sydney, Australia (Former UK Resident)

I blame Hussain, who timed his resignation so ill that, even before the match started, the England openers were under pressure and the collapse was only to be expected. The new England Captain could not pick up the script from there.
A .V. Vaidyanathan, Alameda, CA, USA

Nasser was hounded out of the captain's job by the press and they have a lot to answer for as far as this defeat is concerned.
Wilson Chimbira, Southampton

I think England need a real strike bowler. Anderson is too young to be playing Test cricket, its early days for him at the moment. I would suggest England should call upon the services of Jimmy Ormond or Alex Tudor for the upcoming Test matches instead of playing Harmison and Anderson.

Graeme Smith is 22 years old. If he had been English, he would still be batting number seven for some County side Neil, Oxford

I also think that England needs a wicket-taking spinner. Ashley Giles is not in form at the moment and it would be better to try out someone else. Chris Schofield and Ian Salisbury come to mind; both leg spinners, we all know how vulnerable the South Africans are to the leggies.
Omar Qasim, Karachi, Pakistan

I believe that England are going through a bad spell just like most cricket nations do at some stage but they have to believe in themselves this will only make them work harder to win.
Matt, New Zealand

Too many English players seem to have forgotten the difference between the one day game and the Test arena. If Graham Thorpe is our premier batsman then he should be picked. We need a spinner who can turn the ball. Ashley Giles is simply not good enough at that level. Neither are McGrath and other players like Robert Key etc. Hussain must go, if only to give Vaughan space to captain the side in his own way.
Richard Painter, Jersey

Graeme Smith is 22 years old. If he had been English, he would still be batting number seven for some County side "learning his trade"!!!
Neil, Oxford

England's problem is not batting and it's not really the bowling. The problem was the catching. South Africa caught the ball well, we didn't. Hence Smith gets over 250 instead of eight and we lost.
Robert, Derby

All the metrics show that the English pace bowlers are all faster than their South African equivalents Ian Marcus, Camberley

I admit England played badly in first innings, which truly lost the match. What worries me most is the tosh the English bowlers fed Smith on the leg. Bowlers have to do better if England were to have any chance in this series.
Jay Hanmantgad, Middlesex, UK

I know relatively little about cricket, but I think I might know more than the England cricket team. Every batsman in the second innings should have been playing like Geoffrey Boycott used to. All they had to do was stay in there. The only stroke we should have witnessed today is the forward defence. Nothing else. Boring, but that's what you have to do when you completely mess up.
Will Thorp, Guildford

I was at Lords today and Flintoff's innings was one of the most entertaining ever. They were unlucky to lose by an innings.
Tom Pye, Richmond

All the metrics show that the English pace bowlers are all faster than their South African equivalents. They have ability but no patience therefore all become very smackable to batsman able to get their eye in gather runs past close in fields.

We need a quick bowler who can tie down an end Andy, London

On good wickets you keep it tight. In the same way, the batsman have a one-day mindset - witness Butcher's self inflicted Sid impression in his second innings
Ian Marcus, Camberley

I think England lost the Test because I don't think they had enough time to adjust to having a new captain.
Joel Solts, Leeds, England

Nasser should be dropped or asked to retire. I don't see why he should hang on as a batsman once he had decided to give up the captaincy. I don't think he can come into the side as a batsman. He was always good for 30 odd runs and no more.
Jayashankar, USA

I'm afraid England are at least one bowler short of being a competitive side in this series. We need a quick bowler who can tie down an end, maintain the pressure on the batsmen - someone in the mould of Angus Fraser.

That way, when the Andersons/Harmisons/Flintoffs bowl at the other end, the batsmen have to play shots and we've got a chance. Problem is, I don't know of anyone in county cricket who bowls as tightly as Fraser used to.
Andy, London

England has a long way to go. They need a winning attitude.
Pamidimukkala, v, New Jersey

Firstly please back off Hussain he is still best skipper of ECB and a honest person. He has scored more than 5000 Test runs, what else do people want? His blood? He should play out this series then he probably should retire from Test cricket.
Jitendra, Leic, UK

England again show that they are a team in disarray Murray King, Auckland, New Zealand

Our problems all seem to stem from our bowlers not being able to bowl a consistently accurate line and length on a good batting pitch. Surely the time is now right to bring Graham Thorpe back into the team and consider bowlers like Ormond who puts batsmen under pressure and look like taking wickets. Well done to Andrew Flintoff who showed what can be done, more need to follow his example.
Kevin Miller, Maidstone

Dropped catches lose matches. Never has this been so well shown than in this Test. Practise makes perfect before Trent Bridge.
Steve Hardy, Derby

I honestly cannot think of one English player who deserves to remain on the team except Flintoff, if only for his valiant batting display. England's problems lay in not only the fact that their most experienced batsmen seem to only hit the ball up in the air, but the fact that they're filling spots that could be used for fresh talent.
Michael Shaw, Finland

England again show that they are a team in disarray and fully justify slipping further down the order of world cricket rankings.
Murray King, Auckland, New Zealand

It is easy to overlook what was a very determined effort by South Africa, but I am afraid this is more evidence of England's inability to bowl a consistent line and length and for the batsmen to treasure their wicket more like Graeme Smith.

England were completely outclassed by a very spirited side Muhammd Rehan Ghazi, Islamabad, Pakistan

But fear not, the series is still only 1-0 and I believe the two teams are evenly matched, South Africa, Smith, Ntini and Pollock apart, really have nothing much.
Haw Siang Hon, Sabah, Malaysia

I deplore those who are after Nasser Hussain. They forget so quickly what he has done to England over the last three years. Three years ago England were bottom of the world rankings! All we need is a quality middle order batsman like Thorpe and a couple of good seamers. I am sure England will bounce back. Don't forget we beat South Africa convincingly in the one day series!!
Dinesh Saralaya, Leeds, UK

England don't have a divine right to beat everyone, South Africa are better then us. Simple as that.
Ben Hatley, Shropshire

One good knock from Flintoff! I suppose they will now appoint him England captain....
John Marshall, USA

It will get worse for England once Jacques Kallis joins SA for the third Test.
Deepak, Toronto, Canada

South Africa dominated this Test match from the very beginning. The determined Graeme Smith led from the front and put extra-ordinary pressure on the English players. England were completely outclassed by a very spirited side. South Africa will emerge to be a very good side in a very short period of time.
Muhammd Rehan Ghazi, Islamabad, Pakistan

Sloppy batting and fielding in the first innings cost England this match Jon Groocock, Sheffield

England's bowling attack was consistently unable to bowl a good line and length just outside the off-stump which can bore the opposition into rash shots. Also no 'trap' fields were set, with which South Africa took a number of wickets. Ntini would bowl bouncer after bouncer with two or three men deep on the boundary for the catch.
David, London

We may have lost today but Freddie showed us all of that potential that he has. I am just going to say that the next three Tests will all be about one man: Graeme Smith. He is the South African Michael Vaughan times ten.
Ope Runsewe, West Norwood

Graeme Smith is by far the difference between the two sides. The whole way we play as a Test nation needs to be re-assessed.
Chris Faulkner, Cheshire

England should bring back Graham Thorpe to strengthen the middle order batting. The next match will be better for Vaughan because he can at least have a say in the selection.
Justin Hunt, Wimbledon

Sloppy batting and fielding in the first innings cost England this match. It would be nice too see someone get angry with themselves rather than laughing when they perform badly. England also lack someone who can fire the team up and provide some inspiration.
Jon Groocock, Sheffield

What the English team obviously lacks is some match winners. It's not yet time to judge if another Bradman has been born in Smith, he had lady luck on his day, so it's not too fair to derive stiff conclusions on either side at the moment.

Flintoff's magnificent batting is enough to remind England's selectors that they need younger players Qamar Elahi, Canada

They are both relatively young sides and they do need to play more and get themselves tested. Let's hope for further polishing of both these teams and some really good cricket in the days and months to come. I would not like to blame anyone for England's defeat or praise Smith for his runs. It's still the first pages for both the teams.
Ramesh, Birmingham

Sorry, Jon from Japan (below) - yes they are as pathetic as we claim - this was England at the home of cricket and it was embarrassing to see batsman after batsman display no judgement and get caught out playing shots for which traps had clearly been laid.

They should have known better and should have knuckled down to the job in hand like Butcher and Hussain seemed to be doing this morning. A bit more professionalism is called for and more pride in the shirt! I am sure we can pull this round but a lot of plain talking is needed in the dressing room.
Ed, Essex

England have no excuses. They lost because they were over confident and not good enough. England have an inexperienced captain, so does South Africa. England have young inexperienced players, so do South Africa. Was it just me who could not understand what all the fuss was about when Vaughan took over the captaincy. Sure he did well in the one-dayers. But what does he know?
Daryll, UK

I think England should take heart from the fact that South Africa were in a similar situation last time around as well. When they comprehensively won the Test at Lord's by 10 wickets but went on to lose the series 2-1.
Aviral Gupta, Oxford, UK

Flintoff's magnificent batting is enough to remind England's selectors that they need younger players. There is no doubt that South Africa played really well though.
Qamar Elahi, Canada

Hang on a minute here, England have improved as a Test team in the last four years - they are not embarrassing or pathetic as you all claim, we do have a young side who can only get better.

This Test match isn't over yet, Butcher looks due a big score. Being English I'm behind them, everyone is too quick to put the side down. Isn't it time we got behind our lads and our young skipper!?
Jon, Japan

I am sure that if the Proteas had to choose between Graeme Smith with his significant batting flaws scoring huge totals and the technically perfect Englishmen who specialise in single-figure scores they would gladly take the former rather than the latter.

And if the English bowlers can't get badly flawed batsmen out then what does that say about THEIR ability at Test level?
Dave Smith, New Zealand

I think there is nothing wrong with England team. South Africa just played very well in the second Test.
Hasan, Canada

I would like to suggest that England find a genuine leg spinner Ahmad Nawaz, Malaysia

England need to try out a few more bowlers. Everybody is talking about Graeme Smith, but everyone in the South African top order was among the runs. I am sure there are a lot of untried talented players in the counties. Vaughan, Flintoff, Trescothick and Anderson are world class players from the same system. And a word of advice for the English press and fans - stand by your team.
R Iyer, Toronto, Canada

What a mismatch! Test cricket should be divided into two leagues, one for the good teams and the other for the likes of Zimbabwe, Bangladesh and England.
McDonald, Scotland

Isn't the internet incredible! Here I am sitting on my yacht in Cruz Bay, Virgin Islands listening to South Africa hammering England in the true game of cricket.

My Comment is; the five day Tests emphasize the difference between the 'skill' and the 'luck' of this wonderful game. Well done South Africa and Graeme Smith.
Trevor, Caribbean

Right now, England are spineless, the only player worthy of our country is Andrew Flintoff. The sooner Hussain retires, the better, as the selectors show no sign of taking his form into consideration during selection.
Paul Taylor, Houston Texas

I would like to suggest that England find a genuine leg spinner.
Ahmad Nawaz, Malaysia

England have to be bold and pick young exciting players James Chin Yut, Port Elgin, Canada

The English team has been struggling right from the start of this series, thanks to some brilliant performance from the South Africans. The South African team looks like winning this away series very easily now....
S. Zohaib Asghar, Dubai, United Arab Emirates

Regardless of some comments that can be made about South Africa's luck in the wicket department, this test will be a huge boost for SA's morale. Graeme Smith has been inspirational and has earned his place as opening batsmen and captain.
Clinton Boyd, South African in USA

Would Flintoff have been out if his broken bat had fallen back and knocked the bails off?
Alexander Price, London

England have to be bold and pick young exciting players. The West Indies have languished for too long by picking "old players" and the same fate will suffer England. I will be looking forward to see how the series with the West Indies goes this winter. Brian Lara and Ramnaresh Sarwan are looking forward to welcoming you.
James Chin Yut, Port Elgin, Canada

Smith is no Bradman Bhalbinder Singh, England

Before slating England, can we remember that Graeme Smith put together an innings of true class, setting and breaking numerous batting records in the process. Put in that context, can we not focus on the positives, such as Freddie Flintoff's marvellous knock.
Jamie, UK

England has lost the match because of over confidence. South Africa is not a great team. They have capitalised on dropped catches.
ujit, India

A poor umpiring decision and a very very costly dropped catch has enabled Smith to score 277 in the first Test, when he was plumb lbw on 127, and in the second test an inexcusable drop on eight before he plundered 259. If England can get some discipline in the bowling and fielding the series is not lost, and Smith is no Bradman.
Bhalbinder Singh, England

I think there is an attitude problem that plagues English cricket Vinay, USA

Isn't it puzzling that we all give praise to england when they do well, and as soon there is a dip in form, we all think we have the right to put the national side down! More encouragement is needed from the press, and everyone in general. We will never progress if we are always insulting bad form, our national sides clearly have the talent.
Matt K, UK

Not enough class bats or bowlers. If the did away with overseas players and created a few more spots for there own players, nothing but good can come from it. What other country allows sport to be overrun with imports, not only cricket but most other sports.
Brian Wright, Brisbane, Australia

England are only under such pressure because their bowlers performed badly. Had they batted with more control in the first innings and conjured up a good total then the story would have been much different!!!
Adam, USA

I think there is an attitude problem that plagues English cricket and favours successful tactics over talented players. England have done quite well actually for the talent level they possess. But apart from perhaps Andy Flintoff, there is just no one there that could be called gifted. Their quicks lack pace, their spinners lack turn. I think that with its current attitude, English cricket will never produce an Ian Botham type of talented exciting cricketer.
Vinay, USA

Second best team in the world....he he what a joke....Even Bangladesh plays with more pride.
Gaurav, USA

I wouldn't mind so much, but the South Africans are really nothing to write home about!
Steve, UK

As for the lack of wickets, current form suggests Steve Kirby at Yorkshire, or get Ormond or Johnson back in Jim, Sheffield

England's problem is that its fast bowlers can not bowl fast and its spinner can not spin the bowl. Vaughan is their only world class batsman and needs to work on his maths. He needs to learn that when your team has a deficit of a little matter of 509 runs you are better off grafting than playing extravagant drives.
Hassan Musataf Haroon, Montreal

Ian Chappell always said that some of the best players for any touring side to England were the English selectors. Wonder if they'll finally give Mr Thorpe a call now?
David Heyes, Melbourne

This is part of the game and I am sure that England will come back stronger in next game.
Arif, Manchester, UK

The following changes need to be made ahead of the next Test: Read in, it's time for Stewart to go. McGrath's not really cut out for the job; he was under used as a bowler, so we may as well get Thorpe back in.

As for the lack of wickets, current form suggests Steve Kirby at Yorkshire, or get Ormond or Johnson back in. I keep seeing Neil Carter's (Warwickshire) name in the wickets column. I suggest both Harmison and Anderson are given a long rest.
Jim, Sheffield

We should drop either Gough or Harmison and bring in Jimmy Ormond or Kabir Ali Matt Hing, London, England

Stewart, Gough and Hussain should now stand down. The batsmen need to learn to leave the bad balls and the bowlers need to concentrate on hitting the right line.
Richard McCarthy, Essex

I find it quite incomprehensible that people think of Smith as 'not that good'. If any English player were to smash that many runs in three innings, every paper in this country would be labelling him as their greatest thing since sliced bread. You try batting for a total of 18 hours across three innings and see how far you get.
Brian Sharland, London

If we are going to have any chance of becoming a world class Test side then we need to pitch the ball in the right areas. If anyone noticed, Flintoff was the only bowler putting them under pressure. I recommend for one Test we should drop either Gough or Harmison and bring in Jimmy Ormond or Kabir Ali, they both pitch it in the right area and can swing the ball which would cause the South African batsman many problems.

When it comes to batting, our problem is consistency. We need to bring a consistent batsman in to get all the others going and I would recommend Graham Thorpe - he's been in inspiring form this summer and he at least deserves a chance.
Matt Hing, London, England

This is madness. What are they playing at? I cannot be watching the same England side I watched beat the Aussies at the SCG just six months ago. They seem to have a complete lack of commitment and guts against a South African side who simply aren't as good as England are making them look. And there I was thinking we might have a battle on our hands come next summer. Not on this performance.
Leanne Bentley, Australian in London

School boy stuff from England - it's so embarrassing. The message for the second innings surely should have been "Don't hook Ntini". One of England's worst ever performances all round.
Colin Moore, High Wycombe

It's a shame Vaughan's era has started so badly. Whilst possibly considered to be a 'knee jerk' reaction, I say let's bring in the younger players. The likes of Gough, Butcher and dare I say it Hussain have had their day. Let's see Solanki in for the next Test but balance that with the return of Thorpe.
Andy Smith, London

England's sorry performance goes to prove that the new system of rating teams doesn't mean a thing! The only acceptable placing is Australia at number one and let the fans pick their favourites!
Ramesh Shotham, Cologne, Germany

I hope Hussain bats out the last two days and gets a double hundred. Surely bowling a good line and length and taking simple catches doesn't depend on who the captain is.
M. Pattabiraman, India

While one wants to remain patriotic and positive, I have had to switch off from watching this currant Test from sheer embarrassment and disgust.

Who wants it more? Just look at Graeme Smith's eyes! Jon, Herefordshire

I have watched every Test series for years and have never seen a worse performance. And I don't blame Michael Vaughan - the whole team needs a severe lecture in TEAMWORK and LAZINESS, if they were at school the end of term report would read 'could do much, much better'.
Fran Booth, Sutton Coldfield

As we ponder the efforts by England to avert an innings defeat and celebrate Nasser Hussain's 50, let us remember that he is the single cause for England's dire predicament having cost the England side 251 runs by dropping Graeme Smith when he was on eight.

By my maths this means Nasser Hussain has to score 251 runs in this innings before he is in credit.
Rod Hall, Leicestershire

It seems the boys are spending too much time in front of cameras for publicity shots and not enough in the nets or working on mental aptitude.

Who wants it more? Just look at Graeme Smith's eyes! It's time to bring in players in FORM - Kabir Ali, Jimmy Ormond, Geraint Jones and Ed Smith.
Jon, Herefordshire

Let's face it: unless bad weather interferes, England will never have a true chance of winning any of the remaining Tests!
Uwe Junge, Germany

The England team will rebound. Patience, please. It is the same attitude, which drove Hussain from the captaincy, that is being displayed now by many of our experts in this forum. Everyone needs to take a deep breath. The team will soon rally. That is cricket! Excellent knock by Smith.
Izett, USA

Vaughan should accept that he is not captain material Sanjay, USA

You might as well take all the e-mails received during the last Ashes tour and rerun them inserting the words South Africa instead of Australia.
Dave Smith, New Zealand

Until the fundamental structure of the domestic game is changed, England will find it hard to play consistently well at international level.

Too much cricket that rewards mediocrity. Players need to be challenged at the national level so they are better able to face the intensity of Test match cricket.
David Riddell, Perth. Western Australia

England has the wrong impression that Vaughan is their best batsman. It's not true; he may be good, but he certainly does not have anything that makes him the captain of England.

Captains make things happen and certainly Hussain was 100 times better than Vaughan. Vaughan is just fighting himself to put on the face of a brave captain.

Wake up Vaughan. Captaincy is not your back yard. If Vaughan feels tired and lost after one Test as captain, just imagine Hussain. It's high time Vaughan accepts the fact that he is not captain material. Give it back. Good luck Hussain.
Sanjay, USA

Dear England, why not try to get Ian Botham back, the last decent cricket player you have produced. Even at his age he will be able to play better, than anybody on the pitch against South Africa now. Give it a thought.
Joachim Heineke, Taiwan

In two games you have seen all of England's bad habits come to the fore Ray Douglas, Australia

The South Africans are no better than us. Pick up the performance, you can do it! Come on, please! We can beat these...we have class, we need to show it.
Jimmy Moo, London

The biggest disappointment to this whole fiasco is the fact England were an even-money bet to win the series before the start of the first Test.

In two games you have seen all of England's bad habits come to the fore and most of them centre on the players' lack of courage. There is a new captain, and some of the team have to stand and fight beside him and not see him taken like a lamb to the slaughter.

Smith is not a bad player, but he is not that good - put some damn pressure on him from the moment he comes in.

England has made some big strides in the last few years to get a competitive team again and I fear it's all going to be lost in one series if some of the players won't stand with their captain and show some bottle.
Ray Douglas, Australia

I really think everybody is being way too harsh on the England team. So they've had two bad matches; that doesn't make them bad or 'pathetic.' To say that England lack any class bowlers is just ridiculous.

They have bowled badly in the first two Tests, but you can't expect anybody to play well every single match. The English have far more quality in their team than the South Africans, but due to a combination of insanely bad luck and poor performances at the wrong times, the South Africans have come out on top.

Things have to be changed, and quickly Jay, England

There are still three more Tests after this, and I believe England will win the series; salvaging any 'pride' from this Test is irrelevant.
John, Belgium

Poor performance all round by England. The bowlers in this Test and the series have found it difficult to bowl on a pitch where the wicket does not assist them in any way, and when the conditions where right they struggled to put the ball in the right areas and cause the batsman to make a mistake.

They struggled with their line and length. The batsman have not fared any better, they have struggled to cope with the short ball and have received a good bowling display from South Africa. Things have to be changed, and quickly.
Jay, England

Watching the dismal performance yesterday there is no doubt in my mind that the selectors must cease from the practice of selecting via the old boys network and start to select on performance and potential.

At least four players must be dropped for the next Test and I sincerely hope that they go of their own volition rather than be pushed.

A second point is to ask the question 'why must there be a close link between the one-day game and the five-day Test?' The techniques/skills required are very different.
Peter Nurse, France

England have been outclassed in this Test match Devendra Khurana, India

When Nasser retired it was recorded that England had 'gone from being one of the worst Test-playing sides in the world to one of the best'. I have seen scant evidence of this in the eight days of Tests v SA so far this summer!
Andy, Finland

England should write off the rest of this series and use it as an opportunity to completely rebuild the team under Vaughan's captaincy. It is time to let Stewart and Hussain go, and we definitely need to find some bowlers who can bowl to left-handed batsmen.
Robert Spencer, Ruislip, England

England cannot continue to put their supporters through these shameful displays. It is infuriating to see our top order batsmen get themselves out cheaply when they should be preserving their wicket at all costs!!

England lack bottle and pride but not ability. I want to see us replace the old with the new...guys who are willing to put their bodies on the line for the team. The present team is a disgrace.
Justin, London, UK

Yes, England have been outclassed in this Test match. It is all but over for England in this Test match. Maybe if a couple of England batsmen hang on, then there is a slender chance of the Test match getting to a draw.
Devendra Khurana, India