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Last Updated: Friday, 1 August, 2003, 12:03 GMT 13:03 UK
Have Your Say: Gay legal rights
The Catholic archbishop of Glasgow has described as "subversive" plans to give gay and lesbian partners the same legal rights as married couples.

"The only privileged legal union in society is the family," said The Most Reverend Mario Conti, who is also urging Catholic politicians to vote down the proposals by the Green MSP, Patrick Harvie.

His private members bill would give unmarried couples in "committed" relationships equality in areas such as inheritance and pensions.

In response, Mr Harvie said: "An MSP, or any other elected politician, has a duty to serve all their constituents, whatever their sexuality and whatever their religion."

What do you think? Should homosexual people have the same rights in law as married couples? Should Catholic MSPs follow the archbishop's line? Do sufficient legal mechanisms already exist in society to protect homosexual rights?

Here is a selection of your emails.


This is just another example of the Catholic church trying to regain its grip on society. The fact remains that we are no longer governed by Rome, nor by any religion. Everyone has the right to choose their religious beliefs. Why then should religious beliefs try to govern an entire society, where a large percentage of the citizens do not subscribe to this belief? Ludicrous, and just another reminder of the disgustingly bigoted teachings that will be passed on in the state-funded Catholic schools we continue to keep in Scotland. A breeding ground for intolerance - with remarks like those of Conti being the result.
Louise, England

Who do these priests think they are? Do they think the world should bow down and worship them? They are entitled to their opinion but they are not entitled to use the name of God to lean on society for their own prejudiced aims. Some of the nastiest, most pig-ignorant people I have met have been priests in the Catholic church. Of course, gays should have the same rights as heterosexuals. That shouldn't even be being questioned. The question is - are these bigoted bishops fit to be sitting in the House of Lords when they have already shown a deep rooted inability and unwillingness to serve the taxpaying public - ALL of the taxpaying public. Keep your preaching for the pulpits say I. Lawrence
lawrence, England

The history of the Catholic Church is so steeped in double standards that I firmly believe it has lost any right to pontificate on moral issues. Until it gets its own house in order and learns how to respect every person in a dignified manner it should refrain from all utterances on morality. As a married ex-priest who has experienced the full venom of the Church, as have several of my gay friends, I feel the Pope, Archbishop Conti and the rest of them should put their own house in order first and examine their consciences, asking if they really love their neighbour as themselves.
John, Scotland

What concerns me most about the recent Catholic Church statement is that state money funds and allows priests and teachers to push this nonsense on children. I was brought up a Catholic in Scotland and have had first hand experience of this type of homophobic and bigoted preaching in the classroom. Surely it is time for a politician to raise the question of the need for segregated schooling in the 21st Century.
Mark, UK

How Mario Conti can claim not to be homophobic but state that homosexual relationships are 'depraved' beggars belief. It is no wonder that the influence of the Catholic Church is on the wane when they doggedly refuse to keep in step with accepted 21st century social values.
Michael Torrance, Scotland

Intolerance and bigotry can come from more than one direction. A majority of Scots (by every measure of public opinion at the time) wanted section 28 kept, but they were ignored by bigots at Holyrood. Mario Conti, as a Catholic leader has every right to guide MSPs who claim to be Catholic. He is actually speaking for many, Catholic or not. MSPs are perfectly free to abandon their Catholicism if they wish.
Derek, Scotland

This argument is nothing to do with religion, it's about equal opportunities within legal boundaries and it's quite clearly wrong to deny same sex couples who register their relationships the same legal entitlements as married couples simply because they are the same sex. On the religious side, as a Catholic, I know that the day will come when I will be judged by God. The archbishop should also bear that in mind as he too will be judged by God, and I hope I'm there to see it.
Joseph , UK

By such adamant refusal to acknowledge that society and civilisation have evolved since the beginnings of Christianity, the church, with such outdated, intolerant and bigoted attitudes, does much more damage to society than any gay relationship could ever do, by fuelling hate and intolerance. As a developed, diverse and modern society we should be capable of establishing a legal system that ensures equal rights for all without need for recourse to the confused teachings of a 2,000 year old book.
Dan, UK

It is nothing to do with being bigoted, when it comes to same sex unions that is where the church stands and rightly so. If you are so offended, start your own church.
Susan, England

I for one will never set foot inside a Catholic church again. The teachings of the Bible stated that sex for pleasure was wrong and that homosexuality was wrong because of this; when you look at the infant mortality rates for Biblical times you can see why this made sense - the world was vastly underpopulated. As we all know this is no longer the case. The church's views on both birth control and same-sex relationships are both outdated and in themselves, immoral. It's not very Christian to shun a section of society and call them "depraved".
Ian, Scotland

Once again the spectre of Cardinal Winning raises its ugly bigoted head. As a Catholic and a homosexual who has friends and acquaintances within the RC Church hierarchy, Mario Conti's stance is disappointing. The continuing double standard within the Church is now getting quite tiresome; I have come across a great many priests who privately have no problem with gay partnerships but publically toe the Church's line. I would be interested to know Conti's private views, especially as I know a number of trainee priests who were sent by the Archbishop to the Scots College in Rome during his tenure as Bishop of Aberdeen. They are homosexual and practicing.
Ewen, UK

Marriage, like organised religion, came about as a form of control by the state on human behaviour. There is no biological reason for the existence of either institution. However legal and financial requirements now apply to partnerships. To me there seem to be no reason to distinguish between opposite and same sex partnerships if the partners want the arrangements formalised. We really need to do away with the concept of marriage altogether. For legal and financial reasons you have a civil partnership, formalised and recognised by the state. The partners can then have whatever religious ceremony they like provided their personal superstition permits it. France has had such a set up for years. Roll on the secular society!
John Allen, Scotland

Basing decisions on superstition rather than rationality is the hallmark of religion. Is it possible to take the Catholic Church seriously on social issues, when dogma insists on a virgin birth and bodily resurrection. The Abrahamitic religions pollute thought and undermine understanding. Attempting to control sexuality is a way of controlling the person, it is evident that the Church's moral authority is fatally flawed by its appalling history.
Peter Farrell, UK

I believe wholeheartedly that gay couples should enjoy the same benefits and protection as heterosexual ones. That the Catholic Church cannot support this does not surprise me, but it does dismay me. When are they going to open their eyes and ears. I am "straight" and have been married for 20 years, but I see no difference between my situation and that of any dedicated, long-term gay relationship. The sooner the law (and certain churches) recognise the value of long term stable relationships - irrespective of gender/sexuality the better.
Catriona Shields, Scotland

A person's sexuality is not of their own choosing so they are entitled to enjoy the same privileges as any other member of society and this includes the right to make a caring personal contract. What people should not be allowed to do is to live in a non-contractual partnership, like co-habiting, and then expect to receive the benefits accorded to a contractual partnership like marriage.
John Hipkiss, Wales

With bigoted comments like this it is no wonder that the Catholic church is haemorrhaging followers of this confused faith. The sooner they realise that their anachronistic belief system is the root cause of diminishing congregations, then the sooner the believers may return. I only hope that for those who choose to observe the Catholic faith the church will take note of the reaction to Conti's damaging expressions and put its house back in order. It may then be able to serve its true purpose to unite and bring together communities regardless of their sexuality.
James , Glasgow, Scotland

The Catholic Church say that recognising homosexual relationships would "obscure basic values that belong to the common inheritance of humanity". I can't see anything either Christian or resembling humanity in their latest homophobic comments.
Mark Craig, Scotland

I'm getting fed up with hearing about modern Scotland, it's certainly not an improved Scotland. Righteousness exalts a nation, modern Scotland has turned its back on God's Word. We need to go back to the good book. Man with man, woman with woman how perverse, how low can we stoop yet!
Alasdair, Scotland

There is a solution to the problem - non-Catholic gay people can get "married" and those who are Catholic can choose to follow the teachings of their church. It is very simple. I for one object to the fact that a medieval, highly secretive, unaccountable and exclusive organisation that has nothing to do with me should have any say over my life.
Mark, Scotland

Is it coincidence that increase in tolerance in all areas of our society in recent years has been accompanied by a general decline in organised religion? These recent intolerant remarks from the Catholic Church are perhaps reflective of this and a good illustration of why it is now time for the church to withdraw its bigoted views and presence from politics. I trust our new parliament to put equality and human rights before an organised minority religious prejudice.
Craig, Scotland

By such adamant refusal to acknowledge that society and civilisation have evolved since the beginnings of Christianity, the church, with such outdated, intolerant and bigoted attitudes, does much more damage to society than any gay relationship could ever do, by fuelling hate and intolerance. As a developed, diverse and modern society we should be capable of establishing a legal system that ensures equal rights for all without need for recourse to the confused teachings of a 2,000 year old book.
Dan, UK

I was brought up a Catholic, but believe in equal rights for all. If I find out my MSP has taken the "church" view other than his party view then I will no longer vote for them. Are they going to start putting a candidates religion on the ballot paper so we know that if an issue like this comes up, we know where their loyalties lie??
Sharleen, Scotland

As an atheist I find it unacceptable that a religious body can attempt to have an influence over a decision that will affect the entire nation. If the Catholic church wants to pass its own "law" for its followers then that is up to them - why should they be allowed to make decisions that affect non-Catholics and even non-Christians? As for the hypocritical nature of the church's comments...
Alan , Scotland

Where do we begin with regards to this extremist ranting? The Catholic Church has no moral or social function whatsoever in the year 2003. It is itself an immoral, bigoted institution, whose entire credibility has been destroyed by paedophile priests and the like. This last-ditch desperate attempt at "moral guidance" is disgraceful, with its only function now being to oppress and discriminate. We shouldn't even be giving them the publicity.
Duncan, Scotland

This is not about "privilege" it is about furthering equality. It is clear that the Catholic Church in Scotland have learned nothing from their involvement in the appalling "Keep the Clause" campaign, where the years of good work done by Cardinal Winning were quickly overshadowed by his homophobic ranting.
W MacKenzie, UK

I didn't choose to be gay, but I can choose whether to remain Catholic or not.
Robert, Scotland

It continues to be very sad that the Catholic church promotes this notion that gay people want to attack or somehow undermine the family. This isn't an attack - it is a simple observation that all of Scotland's families deserve to be recognised and supported. The church has been fighting this one very strongly, which suggests that it must be very threatened by the notion that same sex couples might be recognised for who they are - as decent, as law-abiding, as "normal" as any mixed-sex couple. Why is this? Why would one of the world's richest, largest and most politically influential organisations want to put all of its weight behind this discrimination? I just don't see what the threat is. When civil partnership finally does happen in Scotland (and it will), how will this affect the Catholic church? I see no threat.
Duncan Hothersall, Scotland

I am not gay, but who do the RC church think they are? A minority faith who think they can speak for the majority!!! They should worry about getting their own house in order and stop covering up child abuse.
DG, UK

This just demonstrates why nobody goes to church any more and why the church should have no say in the running of our country. Why shouldn't my partner and I of nine years have the same pension rights, the same inheritance rights? Our relationship is no better or worse than a straight one. The church should just concentrate on trying to lure the millions of lost worshippers back instead of getting involved in outdated homophobic blustering.
David, Edinburgh

Marriage is a holy union blessed by God. It's good to see someone standing up for what is right!
Brian, Scotland

If the church wants to continue to be out of date and out of touch with modern society, then it might as well continue to prevent gay marriage in a church. However, a legal partnership register has nothing to do with the church and their interference is just homophobia masked by putting it in the name of religion. Any lifelong partnership, gay or straight, should be equally recognised under the law. Yet gay partners have no legal rights that married couples would have, such as (but not limited to) next of kin rights, pension benefits and inheritance tax.
John Spanton, UK

I completely agree with Mario Conti's comments about this bill undermining marriage in our society, and the influence that has on our children. Let this not be seen as discrimination - merely that it reflects the Christian heritage of our nation, its laws and statutes. We need to continue make a stand for these Biblical family values.
JT, Scotland

As a Catholic, I find Archbishop Conti's opposition to gay partnership rights shocking but all too predictable from a church that adamantly refuses to acknowledge that its current teaching on gay issues is as theologically flawed as is its opposition (ignored by most Catholics) to artificial forms of birth control. Moreover, Catholic bishops are so utterly discredited over child abuse cover-ups that they have lost moral authority and credibility .
Mark Brodrick, UK

As a man who is gay, I came from a "privileged legal union" and one which was blessed by God when my parents married in a Catholic church. If my Labour MSP chooses to recognise as "subversive" my hope that one day, through a legal partnership agreement, I express the option to afford my relationship the same legal protection which guarantees shared rights, then I will fight that discrimination at the ballot box. This interference in politics smacks of a religious Fatwa, handed down by extremists, and has no place in a modern Scotland.
James Doherty, Scotland

What church members do and like is entirely up to them but I see no reason why they should force the rest of us to kowtow to their religious fanaticism. Our governments should not hesitate to deliver human rights to everyone regardless of their orientation. Let's not forget that is was not so long ago that they were using the bible to justify slavery.
Adam Hamilton, Scotland




SEE ALSO:
'Reject gay rights move'
01 Aug 03  |  Scotland



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